From: "glycpa" <mrcpa@uotax.tax> Subject: where did everyone go? Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:26:09 -0400 Lines: 40 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_003C_01C443CC.A4E90320" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion NNTP-Posting-Host: pcp01626290pcs.wilog101.pa.comcast.net 68.80.4.122 Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu! news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!msrnewsc1! TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:650 This NG is only a shell of what it was. Is there a new one or is this it? Thanks, Taxman
Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com! news.primus.ca!news.primus.ca!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca! pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.86.202.85 From: Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion Reply-To: br...@stanley-park.com References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> Lines: 24 User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 17:23:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: ab...@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1085678602 24.71.223.147 (Thu, 27 May 2004 11:23:22 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:23:22 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:652 glycpa wrote: > This NG is only a shell of what it was. Is there a new one or is this it? I have been very busy replacing Windows desktops with Linux KDE desktops and making my business clients very happy. No viruses, no weekly upgrades, solid performance, remote maintenanace and non-stop productivity, all for about 1/3 the price of a Windows desktop. As an added benefit, the client is no longer supporting a corrupt multinational corporate predator. I could list some of the amazing statements Microsoft had been making recently to discredit Linux but it is so *stupid* it just makes me laugh. Microsoft is s dull lumbering bully whose eyes are lit with fear at the prospect of facing off against Linux. Best regards, Brian Linux Mystic open sorcerer
From: "Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP]" <bkva...@publishermvps.com> References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:10:13 -0500 Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2096 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2096 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Message-ID: <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-67-37-29-142.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net 67.37.29.142 Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu! news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!msrnewsc1! TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:655 Hi Brian (br...@stanley-park.com), in the newsgroups you posted: || I have been very busy replacing Windows desktops with Linux KDE || desktops and making my business clients very happy. || || No viruses, no weekly upgrades, solid performance, remote || maintenanace and non-stop productivity, all for about 1/3 the price || of a Windows desktop. || || As an added benefit, the client is no longer supporting a corrupt || multinational corporate predator. || || I could list some of the amazing statements Microsoft had been making || recently to discredit Linux but it is so *stupid* it just makes me || laugh. || || Microsoft is s dull lumbering bully whose eyes are lit with fear at || the prospect of facing off against Linux. I hope some of your customers haven't already switched from Linux to Windows Server 2003 like these guys have: http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/25/1085442118174.html "Netcraft, which said it had spotted 2.1 million sites running the operating system in its monthly webserver survey in May, pointed out that around half were new sites while the others had switched from Linux. " And of course we know that Netcraft IS credible since that is who YOU use :-) -- Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!newshub.sdsu.edu! elnk-nf2-pas!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca! pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.86.202.85 From: Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion Reply-To: br...@stanley-park.com References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> Lines: 70 User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: <xABtc.606753$oR5.109784@pd7tw3no> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 07:09:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: ab...@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1085728157 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 28 May 2004 01:09:17 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 01:09:17 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:679 Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] wrote: > Hi Brian (br...@stanley-park.com), > in the newsgroups you posted: > || I have been very busy replacing Windows desktops with Linux KDE > || desktops and making my business clients very happy. > || No viruses, no weekly upgrades, solid performance, remote > || maintenanace and non-stop productivity, all for about 1/3 the price > || of a Windows desktop. > || As an added benefit, the client is no longer supporting a corrupt > || multinational corporate predator. > || I could list some of the amazing statements Microsoft had been making > || recently to discredit Linux but it is so *stupid* it just makes me > || laugh. > || Microsoft is s dull lumbering bully whose eyes are lit with fear at > || the prospect of facing off against Linux. > I hope some of your customers haven't already switched from Linux to > Windows Server 2003 like these guys have: > http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/25/1085442118174.html Here are a few articles for your perusal: Low-end Servers, Linux Up, Gartner Says thewhir.com/marketwatch/low052704.cfm "Gartner said that within this growth, there was a noticeable increase in uptake of the Linux operating system. According to Gartner, revenue of Linux-based server hardware rose 57.3 percent over the first quarter, while commercial Unix server revenue fell 2.3 percent." Linux Growth Helps Database Market Post Gains www.ecommercetimes.com/story/34056.html "By far the fastest-growing platform for database sales was Linux, which grew 158 percent from 2002 levels. Oracle saw powerful growth in the Linux sphere, with sales up an astronomical 360 percent over 2002." Database Platforms: Windows Grows, Linux Grows Faster www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=6250 "Linux, on the other hand, grew at a torrid pace as a database platform -- 153 percent. In dollar terms, it also beat Windows for growth, with a $180-million gain in revenues, according to Gartner." > "Netcraft, which said it had spotted 2.1 million sites running the > operating system in its monthly webserver survey in May, pointed out that > around half were new sites while the others had switched from Linux. " I heard about that - Microsoft pestered the dickens out of a couple hosting companies and finally managed to GIVE AWAY and INSTALL Server 2003 over established Linux webservers - we shall see what happens when it comes to time to renew their licenses, > And of course we know that Netcraft IS credible since that is who YOU use Of course. 8^) Best regards, Brian Linux Mystic open sorcerer
From: "Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP]" <bkva...@publishermvps.com> References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <xABtc.606753$oR5.109784@pd7tw3no> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 08:22:15 -0500 Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2096 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2096 X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original Message-ID: <#gIWtcLREHA.3300@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion NNTP-Posting-Host: adsl-67-37-29-142.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net 67.37.29.142 Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com! cyclone.bc.net!msrtrans!TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:689 Hi Brian (br...@stanley-park.com), in the newsgroups you posted: ||| "Netcraft, which said it had spotted 2.1 million sites running the ||| operating system in its monthly webserver survey in May, pointed ||| out that around half were new sites while the others had switched ||| from Linux. " || || I heard about that - Microsoft pestered the dickens out of a couple || hosting companies and finally managed to GIVE AWAY and INSTALL || Server 2003 over established Linux webservers - we shall see what || happens when it comes to time to renew their licenses, Not from what I hear =) -- Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com ~pay it forward~ This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com! border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pd7cy2so!shaw.ca! pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.86.202.85 From: Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion Reply-To: br...@stanley-park.com References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <xABtc.606753$oR5.109784@pd7tw3no> <#gIWtcLREHA.3300@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> Lines: 52 User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: <4ELtc.575675$Pk3.62081@pd7tw1no> Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:35:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: ab...@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1085769344 24.71.223.147 (Fri, 28 May 2004 12:35:44 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:35:44 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:696 Brian Kvalheim - [MSFT MVP] wrote: > Hi Brian (br...@stanley-park.com), > in the newsgroups > you posted: > Not from what I hear =) What about the 'facts' posted in the other THREE articles? They seem to indicate that Linux use is accelerating faster than Microsoft - any comment? You have to understand that most CIOs are progmatists - they don't have any religious feelings about one OS over another. Linux offers them superior operational security, lower cost of installation, operation, maintenance & upgrade AND no rights sucking license requirements. Match that with enterprise quality world class applications like Apache, Bind, Samba and Sendmail, which are also available like Linux; Why would anybody want to spend $10,000s on Microsoft licenses and maintenance contracts? Microsoft is spending $10,000,000s trying to *smear* Linux and the GPL because they know this is a race they are going to lose so they are doing everything they can to slow the open source onslaught! Microsoft funded the SCO attack on IBM and Linux, funded the recent Ken Brown book apparently exposing Linux Torvalds as a code plagarist, numerous funded studies that find Microsoft cheaper than Linux (I still laugh whenever I read something like that) and even publicly stating that Linux isn't really open ssource (Bwahahahahahahaha)... Microsoft is pathetic... fortunately most of their FUD is exposed for the bovine excrement that it is. Microsoft's sad performance says volumes about the leaders of this corrupt corporate predator - you see, nothing has changed since the 80s. Want to know what is really freaking Microsoft out? Linux on the desktop! You see, all the big players, RedHat Novell/Suse IBM & Mandrake, are now developing professional quality Linux desktops. Combine that with thin-client access to Microsoft Office on Linux desktops and you see the beginning of the end for Microsoft's monopoly. 8^) Best regards Brian MVP, The other Brian Linux Mystic open sorcerer
From: "Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP]" <publ...@mvps.org> References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <xABtc.606753$oR5.109784@pd7tw3no> <#gIWtcLREHA.3300@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <4ELtc.575675$Pk3.62081@pd7tw1no> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:14:02 -0500 Lines: 119 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <uNfuFmxREHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.185.170.174 Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com! npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de! TK2MSFTNGP08.phx.gbl!TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:734 In news:4ELtc.575675$Pk3.62081@pd7tw1no, Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> posted: > What about the 'facts' posted in the other THREE articles? "Although Windows server growth percentages trailed Linux, the Windows category far outpaced Linux, logging some US$3.8 billion in the quarter. Factory revenues for Windows servers gained 16.4 percent, IDC said, and unit shipments jumped 26.5 percent. " And Windows is UP from the previous years increases (Windows servers unit shipments were up 10.3% the year prior, so Linux appears to NOT be growing at the cost of Windows. http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.asp?ID=4&Art_ID=19841 . Windows Servers are GAINING, not losing ground. And they are NOT giving them away :-). > They seem to indicate that Linux use is accelerating faster than > Microsoft - any comment? Sure, it's easier to grow faster than a company who has already saturated the market. Look at Sony's PS2. The Xbox is outselling the PS2 right now by 57%. Why? Because the market is already saturated with PS2's. This is of course more related to desktops. But look at server sales 10 years ago compared to now for MS, where MS had nada for market penetration back then. Did you know that MS Servers and Linux Servers are growing at the expense of Unix servers? And don't forget those who are ALREADY defecting from Linux back to Windows because they initially thought the TCO was cheaper with Linux :-) "Servers using Windows also grew, rising 10.3 percent to $3.4 billion, IDC said. "Even though we see this tremendous growth in Linux servers, it is not preventing the Windows market from growing," Bozman said." > You have to understand that most CIOs are progmatists - they don't > have any religious feelings about one OS over another. Linux offers > them superior operational security, lower cost of installation, > operation, maintenance & upgrade AND no rights sucking license > requirements. Then they should avoid RedHat right? lol > Match that with enterprise quality world class applications like > Apache, Bind, Samba and Sendmail, which are also available like > Linux; Why would anybody want to spend $10,000s on Microsoft licenses > and maintenance contracts? Probably because more people trust a licensed, supported secure model. Similar to why RedHat appears to be so successful. > Microsoft is spending $10,000,000s trying to *smear* Linux and the GPL > because they know this is a race they are going to lose so they are > doing everything they can to slow the open source onslaught! > > numerous funded studies that find Microsoft cheaper than > Linux (I still laugh whenever I read something like that) In many (if not most) cases, it is true that MS is a cheaper solution. Have you comprehended how much MORE expensive RedHat Server solutions are than Windows Server 2003 solutions??! OUT of the BOX none the less! However, I believe linux can be a cheaper solution in certain cases as well. > Microsoft is pathetic... fortunately most of their FUD is exposed for > the bovine excrement that it is. Personally, I find it's the open source advocates that are spreading FUD, but at the same time offering enough competition to force MS to provide the consumer with an even more secure, stable and incredibily successful software choice. > Microsoft's sad performance says volumes about the leaders of this > corrupt corporate predator - you see, nothing has changed since the > 80s. Sad performance? Increased desktop sales (profitable), increased servers sales (profitable), increased xbox sales, first time profitable MSN sales and continued increased Office (profitable) sales hardly seems to be sad performance: http://www.xboxsolution.com/article1485.html - Xbox Sales more than double after $30 price drop - surpass PS2 http://www.gamemarketwatch.com/news/item.asp?nid=2851 - Microsoft expected to meet Xbox Sales forecasts http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2004/mar04/ 03-29OfficeSystemMomentum2004PR.asp - Retail Sales Double Those of Office XP, Office Online Use Surges, and Partner Solutions Are Set To Triple, Showing That Information Workers Value the Microsoft Office System http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.asp?ID=4&Art_ID=19841 - Windows Server growth continues http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5204407.html - Windows XP Sales on the upswing 210 MILLION copies sold "Sullivan claimed that the actual number of computers using Windows XP was much higher, since it doesn't include software loaded onto machines under corporate licensing agreements, which typically are not closely tracked since they are sold under volume licensing agreements." The first year they were selling 6 million copies a month, but are now selling at 10 millions copies a month. http://www.forbes.com/business/newswire/2003/11/13/rtr1147865.html - MSN's first ever profit, details. Curious as to where the sad performance is. Maybe I missed something. =) > the beginning of the end for Microsoft's > monopoly. You have been saying that for a few years now, yet MS continues to grow. Sales continue to climb, revenues and net income both climb at the same pace, and market saturation continues to increase. While the "monopoly" maybe be deteriorating (a good thing for MS legally), MS and it's products surely are not coming to an end. In fact, they are just getting better! Best regards to you too. -- Brian Kvalheim Microsoft Publisher MVP http://www.publishermvps.com This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.
Path: controlnews3.google.com!news1.google.com!news.glorb.com! news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw2no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.86.202.85 From: Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> Subject: Re: where did everyone go? Newsgroups: microsoft.public.msn.discussion Reply-To: br...@stanley-park.com References: <#sPKs4#QEHA.2876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl> <euptc.602989$oR5.591882@pd7tw3no> <uH0r7YBREHA.556@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <xABtc.606753$oR5.109784@pd7tw3no> <#gIWtcLREHA.3300@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl> <4ELtc.575675$Pk3.62081@pd7tw1no> <uNfuFmxREHA.2496@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl> Lines: 248 User-Agent: KNode/0.7.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Message-ID: <OFNuc.634830$Ig.608654@pd7tw2no> Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 21:43:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.71.223.147 X-Complaints-To: ab...@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw2no 1086039790 24.71.223.147 (Mon, 31 May 2004 15:43:10 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:43:10 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Xref: controlnews3.google.com microsoft.public.msn.discussion:744 Brian Kvalheim - [MS MVP] wrote: > In news:4ELtc.575675$Pk3.62081@pd7tw1no, > Brian <br...@stanley-park.com> posted: >> What about the 'facts' posted in the other THREE articles? > "Although Windows server growth percentages trailed Linux, the Windows > category far outpaced Linux, logging some US$3.8 billion in the quarter. > Factory revenues for Windows servers gained 16.4 percent, IDC said, and > unit shipments jumped 26.5 percent. " There is no way to tell how many copies of Linux are being included in embedded technology, such as the very popular Cisco/Linksys wireless products. It seems to me Microsoft has even baled on it's own line of wireless products. Also not included are the 100,000s of desktop and server installations done by independent contractors like myself. Keep in mind that Linux has just begun it's move onto the desktop - Linux use is accelerating at a faster rate than Microsoft in the server market and soon the same will be said of the desktop! Here is an interesting story for you: Microsoft workers are revolting www.theinquirer.net/?article=16241 It looks like Steve is cutting back on employee wages and benefits - could it be that Microsoft ISN'T telling all? > And Windows is UP from the previous years increases (Windows servers unit > shipments were up 10.3% the year prior, so Linux appears to NOT be growing > at the cost of Windows. > http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.asp?ID=4&Art_ID=19841 . Windows > Servers are GAINING, not losing ground. And they are NOT giving them away > :-). Windows server growth is being held back by Linux growth so it IS at the expense of Microsoft. In the growing server market, Linux growth exceeds Windows growth, both in numbers and dollars! >> They seem to indicate that Linux use is accelerating faster than >> Microsoft - any comment? > Sure, it's easier to grow faster than a company who has already saturated > the market. Look at Sony's PS2. The Xbox is outselling the PS2 right now > by 57%. Why? Because the market is already saturated with PS2's. This is > of course more related to desktops. But look at server sales 10 years ago > compared to now for MS, where MS had nada for market penetration back > then. Did you know that MS Servers and Linux Servers are growing at the > expense of Unix servers? And don't forget those who are ALREADY defecting > from Linux back to Windows because they initially thought the TCO was > cheaper with Linux :-) Linux is much cheaper to install, setup, secure, maintain and administer than Microsoft Server 2003 - FACT! Anybody who tries to tell you different is LYING! > "Servers using Windows also grew, rising 10.3 percent to $3.4 billion, IDC > said. "Even though we see this tremendous growth in Linux servers, it is > not preventing the Windows market from growing," Bozman said." Yes, it is growing, just not as fast as Linux or the market. >> You have to understand that most CIOs are pragmatists - they don't >> have any religious feelings about one OS over another. Linux offers >> them superior operational security, lower cost of installation, >> operation, maintenance & upgrade AND no rights sucking license >> requirements. > Then they should avoid RedHat right? lol I would and do. >> Match that with enterprise quality world class applications like >> Apache, Bind, Samba and Sendmail, which are also available like >> Linux; Why would anybody want to spend $10,000s on Microsoft licenses >> and maintenance contracts? > Probably because more people trust a licensed, supported secure model. Well, nothing about licensing suggests quality. And I wouldn't say anything about security, if I were a Microsoft guy. Microsoft seems incapable of writing secure code... PERIOD! As for support, how about IBM, Novell, Hewlett Packard, Dell and RedHat? They will all support Linux and some are moving into the marketing and support of other open source projects. HP Throws Weight Behind MySQL, JBoss www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3361151 "We can provide support for that entire solution stack and we're also now giving our customers flexibility in choice and the types of solutions they want to deploy whether that's a commercial or open source application," Oops... > Similar to why RedHat appears to be so successful. Appears to be? It IS successful because they can provide something Microsoft can not! Security, reliability and lower maintenance costs. RedHat is still less expensive when you add Microsoft's extended support costs. >> Microsoft is spending $10,000,000s trying to *smear* Linux and the GPL >> because they know this is a race they are going to lose so they are >> doing everything they can to slow the open source onslaught! >> numerous funded studies that find Microsoft cheaper than >> Linux (I still laugh whenever I read something like that) > In many (if not most) cases, it is true that MS is a cheaper solution. No it isn't - don't be parroting Microsoft's lies! I have to confess that whatever logic you are using to support such a conclusion is illusive. Linux costs less to license - often free. Linux costs less to install - requires less hardware for tasks. Linux costs less to update - can be automated in most cases. Linux costs less to administer - much fewer man hours per service. Linux costs less to maintain - fewer lost hours down time for maintenance. Linux costs less to track licensing - no BSA, no Microsoft brown shirts. Linux costs less to upgrade - Linux upgrades can be incremental - MS not! Linux costs less for network services - Apache, Bind, Sendmail, Samba Free! However, Microsoft continues to fund studies that find differently - just about what I could expect from a corporate thug with a documented history of lying whenever it suites them. > Have you comprehended how much MORE expensive RedHat Server solutions are > than Windows Server 2003 solutions??! OUT of the BOX none the less! What is up with RedHat? Why don't you talk about Slackware, SuSE, Mandrake or Gentoo? RedHat is just one of hundreds of different Linux designs and compilations. If RedHat were to disappear tomorrow, we would mourn it's loss but the community would carry on without a lost step. Nothing would be lost because everything RedHat employs is OPEN SOURCE! You can even build your own operating system using the Linux kernel and the open source components available all over the 'Net. That is what Google did. > However, I believe linux can be a cheaper solution in certain cases as > well. I can do everything RedHat can do for 20% of what they charge AND 25% of what Microsoft will charge. Apache is a superior webserver to anything Microsoft can field! Bind is a superior nameserver to anything Microsoft can field! Sendmail is a superior mailserver to anything Microsoft can field. Samba, MySQL, PHP, Python, KDE... You name it! >> Microsoft is pathetic... fortunately most of their FUD is exposed for >> the bovine excrement that it is. > Personally, I find it's the open source advocates that are spreading FUD, Well, then you have some lessons to learn. I install Linux network services every week - most new but some replacing Windows. I know how much Microsoft wants just for it's licenses, not to mention support contracts and maintenance expenses. Sorry Brian K. but YOU DO NOT HAVE A CLUE! Factor in the lost business and downtime caused by Windows security and upgrade malfunctions. > but at the same time offering enough competition to force MS to provide > the consumer with an even more secure, stable and incredibly successful > software choice. Ah yes, the desperate song of proprietary software advocate. Are you really that naive? >> Microsoft's sad performance says volumes about the leaders of this >> corrupt corporate predator - you see, nothing has changed since the >> 80s. > Sad performance? Increased desktop sales (profitable), increased servers > sales (profitable), increased box sales, first time profitable MSN sales > and continued increased Office (profitable) sales hardly seems to be sad > performance: I wonder why Steve is trying to cut personnel expenses if everything is going so well. I understand RedHat is hiring. 8^) <clipped numerous references> Forbes is an unreliable source of information - it is an old boys club that has stagnated and gone rancid. > Curious as to where the sad performance is. Maybe I missed something. =) The sad performance is the activities of Microsoft's FUD campaign against Linux and the open source community. >> the beginning of the end for Microsoft's >> monopoly. Well, I will now say it is the end of the beginning of Microsoft's fall from domination of the IT community. 8^) > You have been saying that for a few years now, yet MS continues to grow. > Sales continue to climb, revenues and net income both climb at the same > pace, and market saturation continues to increase. While the "monopoly" > maybe be deteriorating (a good thing for MS legally), MS and it's products > surely are not coming to an end. In fact, they are just getting better! Do you really believe that? It is a good month for Microsoft when they go 30 days without a virus storm running through the 'Net. It is a good month for Microsoft when they haven't been fined a billion dollars for bad behaviour or theft. It is a good month for Microsoft when their web userbase doesn't drop another point. It is a good month for Microsoft when they aren't connected to some slimy attack against open source and Linux. Keep one thing in mind - if Microsoft grows at a steady rate of 10% per year but Linux grows at a steady rate of 25% - Linux wins. 8^) Best regards, Brian Linux Mystic open sorcerer