Message ID: 154007
Posted By: leclite
Posted On: 2004-07-13 22:00:00
Subject: lol ken brown doesn't know shit

he can't even understand what "peer review" means.

Message ID: 154026
Posted By: anakareena
Posted On: 2004-07-13 22:40:00
Subject: Ken Brown, Patents and software

That's the trick! It's not the developement of software that drives the price... It's the proprietary processes involved in the CD burner, and the patents and copyrights in the burning software that drives the price.
Microsoft uses proprietary software, and tightly controlled CD stamping equipment to make their Windows CD's where Linux uses open source software and CD-R's and is therefore able to give away CD's for free.

Now I understand completely.

Message ID: 154028
Posted By: walterbyrd
Posted On: 2004-07-13 22:48:00
Subject: ken brown, who's going to listen,

who's going to care?

Seems to me the only people even remotely interested in listening to kenny, are people who have already made up their minds.

Kenny's spin is very obviouls. It's hard for me to believe that there is some group of people that are on the fence and will be swayed by kenny's none-sense.

Message ID: 154029
Posted By: b29651
Posted On: 2004-07-13 22:49:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

if you do please explain to me?

Message ID: 154030
Posted By: anakareena
Posted On: 2004-07-13 22:56:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

*grin* Brown was using the price of automobiles as an anology for open source as related to proprietary. In his theory (side note... ESR is exploding right now) the price of car manufacturing is is driven primarily by the cost of the proprietary manufacturing techniques.
Apparently, cars could be made at a fraction of the cost if manufacturers didn't have to pay huge royalties for the cost of top secret intellectual property type specialized machinery in the manufacturing process.

So since proprietary software is made using top secret proprietary intellectual property type equipment, it totally justifies the price of M$ $oftware.

(and ESR is getting seriously hostile on The Linux Show... LIVE)

Message ID: 154032
Posted By: cambo67
Posted On: 2004-07-13 23:03:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

He just does not understand how programming works.

He can't grasp the idea that software is a tool. You use a bunch of tools to make further tools.

It is a fundamental level of comprehension that he just not get. And probably never will.


Message ID: 154033
Posted By: peragirn
Posted On: 2004-07-13 23:04:00
Subject: ken brown is considered SCO jr.

he argues without making a point. He argues without thinking. He can't understand.

Message ID: 154036
Posted By: leclite
Posted On: 2004-07-13 23:19:00
Subject: what a wonderful show

thanks TLS and everybody who participated. i hope somebody does a full transcript.

Message ID: 154038
Posted By: anakareena
Posted On: 2004-07-13 23:26:00
Subject: Re: what a wonderful show

Woohoo!! That was different!
Brown sounded smugly, and blissfully ignorant of anything related to facts, and ESR was just about to totally blow a fuse.

Indemnity... Proprietary software indemnifies users by allowing a refund of the purchase price if you get sued for stolen code in the software...

Those thieving Linux bastards though... THEY let you use the software for FREE! What good is a refund of the purchase price if you didn't pay anything for it.

Buy proprietary! At least you get a refund if it turns out to be stolen!

I wonder if Ken Brown, and Darl have the same drug dealer.

Message ID: 154068
Posted By: peragirn
Posted On: 2004-07-14 07:54:00
Subject: Archive of Last nights Linux Show up.

Last nights basing of ADTI's Ken Brown on The Linux show is up. It is nearly twice as big as a normal archive as the "Interview" extened an hour longer than normal for the show.

If you Listen you will understand Andy Tannebaum's statement, I do not suffer fools gladly. This guy proves what kind of Idiot he is. I prefer to call him SCO jr. Full of something but not facts.

Message ID: 154055
Posted By: bruce_s01
Posted On: 2004-07-14 06:17:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

(*Disclaimer* I haven't listened to it yet)
This guy is really is completely clueless, he has no idea of the economies of scale and the difference between physical and intellectual property.
The reasons why car manufacturing is expensive are:
Large plants.
Lots of semi-custom equipment, due to the fact of short, labour-intensive production runs to produce the tooling.
A large amount of workers (even in heavily automated plants).
Large material costs: raw steel plates, components, paints etc.
Large design teams, which also are invloved with the production engineering.

Why CD production is cheap:
Small plants: a sizeable CD pressing unit can be fitted in a small industrial unit.
Small amount of Semicustom equipment, along with a small amount of reasonably easily available pressing equipment (otherwise how could you easily get "pirated" pressed CDs and DVDs).
Small amount of workers (mostly just for refilling, and boxing up completed product).
Small material costs: CD Blanks, CD Cases, Boxes.
Higher volume production.

I don't believe this "person" is been in a factory or even in industry at all!


Bruce S.

Message ID: 154072
Posted By: b29651
Posted On: 2004-07-14 08:25:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

i know he couldnt have been in a cd pressing plant
they are so automated it is unreal
and i have been


Message ID: 154075
Posted By: anakareena
Posted On: 2004-07-14 08:34:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software


Ken Brown didn't say anything about CD pressing. He simply used the analogy of the car manufacturing plant to show why proprietary is so costly, and that the majority of the cost of a new vehicle was because of the cost of the tooling.

I translated that to the CD pressing scenario.

Message ID: 154081
Posted By: phandsvrta
Posted On: 2004-07-14 08:54:00
Subject: Re: Ken Brown, Patents and software

However, as regards the analogy, you're right on the money. We have a CD manufacturing "plant" downstairs. It has two CD pressing machines in a smallish office area (about 25' x 25'). It is run by one guy. It processes all CDs for our international business - about $650/year. One employee, two machines, a small work space, cheap raw materials, high volume - overall, very low cost.


Message ID: 154082
Posted By: manyhats23
Posted On: 2004-07-14 08:54:00
Subject: Re: Archive of Last nights Linux Show

Ken Brown is exactly the kind of person we in the OSS community depise. His logic is flawed, his arguments are hollow, and his analogies are empty.

HOWEVER: This is exactly the type of person who has the ears of our legislators. He is a known quantity, and can make a persuasive "argument" for the uninitiated. Remember, the normal staffer (or Senator or Representative) doesn't have the time or knowledge to understand the nuances of software and copyrights. So they must rely on the likes of Ken Brown.

He does *sound* good ... as someone said, very smooth talker. So when a staffer needs to fill in the blanks on software patents or copyright law for software, they will call someone like Kenny boy. Kenny can give them lots of quick talking points on why OSS is bad. And typically, that's all the staffer needs to write a summary for their legislator. Ken Brown fits the Washington mold for a lobbyist. He isn't a researcher (obviously) and doesn't have the depth of knowledge of the software world to be an expert. But when called upon by a Congressional staffer, he can give them a summary over the phone in 20 minutes.

The only defense against the likes of Kenny boy is to completely debunk all of his comments and statements. And do it publically. And do it in the media. And in the media that our legislators (or their staffers) might read. Otherwise, our legislators will hear what the likes of Kenny boy has to say, and write LAW based is his flawed logic and bogus research.


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